Kenyan Pundit

1. When did John Githongo join TI?

ANSWER: This question has no relevance to the Anglo-Leasing scam. But if you must know, John Githongo joined TI in 2003 (It has been established that he actually joined TI earlier than this, but this doesn’t change the premise of this response). At the time, corruption at the judiciary, where you were the minister in charge, was rampant. Transparency International had been conducting surveys to determine the level of corruption in Kenya. Incidentally, this is what your Justice Ministry ranked in 2003 in relation to 38 other governments institutions:

A: Aggregate Index (1 being most corrupt, and 38 least corrupt) - Ranked 12 out of 38.
B: Likelihood of encountering a bribe - Ranked 10 out of 38.
C: Cost of Bribes - Ranked 7 out of 38.
D: Average # of bribes - Ranked 7 out of 38

Please refer to: http://www.tikenya.org/documents/BRIBERYINDEX2004.pdf

2. Is it true that he inherited his position in TI from his father?

ANSWER: Yes. It is true. But please refer to #1.

3. Was his Chairman at TI Mr. Joe Wanjui? Refer to #1

4. Can he deny that he was appointed PS in the Office of the President on recommendation of Mr. Joe Wanjui?

ANSWER: He probably wouldn’t deny it. Aside from the fact that he was very competent in the job, he was probably appointed on the assumption that he was “one of us”. You understand the deal - the “Aindu Aitu” syndrome, which your government has promoted since it came to power. But as Michela Wrong of the Guardian retorted, “this was a serious misreading of the man” on your folks’ part.

5. Mr. Githongo’s job was to advise the president on governance issues. When did he turn out to be an anti corruption investigator?

ANSWER: In 4/17/2005, the media reported that while speaking at Giitine Village in your Imenti South constituency, you stated that Githongo took the responsibilities of “supervising anti-corruption investigations” because KACC had not been established. You are the best person to answer your own question. It is surprising that you are now contradicting yourself. For a lawyer, this borders on ineptitude.

6. What was the function of Anti corruption police unit and Kenya Anti corruption commission during Mr. Githongo’s tenure?

ANSWER: Very good question. Mr. Aaron Ringera, whom you campaigned for very vigorously for the 2.5- million-shilling-a-month KACC job, even though he never applied for it, was your partner at your law firm of Ringera, Kiraitu and Kuria. You, no doubt, also remember your third partner, Gibson Kamau Kuria - the fellow whom, as the defense counsel at the Bosire’s Goldenberg Commission was secretly leaking information to the accused, one Kamlesh Pattni, and at the same time, seeking business partnership for his brother with him. (You are truly an amazing lot). I would assume the Ringera would best answer your question, considering that despite the overwhelming evidence of corruption in the government, he has not done a thing to arraign those accused of corruption, including those who have been obstructing investigations. His most memorable performance was to spend time and money video-taping a police recruitment exercise. What exactly is his job? Again, good question.

7. Did any minister obstruct Mr. Githongo in preparing or handling over his reports to the president?

ANSER: Yes. In fact, you may very well be familiar with him for there is ample evidence that you have been obstructing justice through threats directed at Mr. Githongo. Only a few days ago, the entire world watched in disbelief at the tapes played by the BBC in which you were the star actor issuing threats to Mr. Githongo. This, from the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Affairs. If this is not obstructing justice, then what is? In essence, the tape answers your question.

8. Why did Mr. Githongo record his conversations with colleagues in government? Was he a spy at the heart of President Kibaki’s Government?

ANSWER: Kenyans would not expect those involved in corruption to record their evil deeds. Kenyans are lucky to have had Mr. Githongo to do it for them. If this means he is the spy for the Kenyan people, so be it.

9. Apart from the ministers referred to in the report, who else did he tape record?

ANSWER: Your question will be answered soon, when the rest of the report is released. You might wish you never asked the question.

10. Mr. Githongo held meetings with Prof Anyang Nyongo’ and Raila Odinga. Did he tape those conversations? What are the contents of those conversations? Why are they not included in his report?

ANSWER: He may as well have. But right now, Kenyans are interested in your role in Anglo-Leasing. That’s what the issue is all about. Not Raila, or Anyang Nyong’o.

11.Can he produce an unedited transcript of all his recordings including where he himself is talking?

ANSWER: Again. The issue is not Raila or Anyang Nyong’o. It is about your role in the Anglo-Leasing Scam.

12.How can we ensure that the records have not been “doctored” to serve certain interests? Can he make the tapes available for expert analysis?

ANSWER: These are unfounded accusations, so the burden of proof rests with you. Besides, you cannot deny the voice is yours.

13. Did Githongo record his conversations with Sir Edward Clay at that time?

ANSWER: Irrelevant question. Please refer to # 10.

14. Can he produce a record of those conversations?

ANSWER: Please refer to #10 and #13.

15. Mr John Githongo conducted inquiries of other matters such as Invesco in City Hall, the Goldenberg scandal, and Pending Bills. Why doesn’t his report include conversations on these matters?

ANSWER: As the custodian of the law, perhaps you are best placed to answer your own question? Your partner, Aaron Ringera - to whom you campaigned so much, was in charge of KACC. What did he do about it?

16. Mr Githongo collected documents from Treasury showing that the Anglo Leasing and Finance Co. Had first entered into contracts with the Kanu government in 2001. When did he not ask the former Kanu ministers who the Anglo Leasing was? Who is he covering up?

ANSWER: Covering up? This is an abuse of terminology. The question is, who had been hounding Mr. Githongo to “go easy” on the investigations? Perhaps you forgot your conversation on 10 May 2004 when you expressed your worries that his investigations would “knock out key political people”?
When you reported that money had been refunded and that Anglo-Leasing was a “scandal that never was”, who refunded the money? Why did you not disclose the names of the people who “refunded” the money? Secondly, it was reported that after the government contracted Kroll and Associates to track looted money, you suddenly considered amnesty for the looters. And then you claimed that it was getting harder to recover the money. Finally, you went totally silent on the issue. Kenyans are asking: What happened to the money you were tracing?
Or was the money in yours and your partners foreign accounts all along, and you got piqued by guilt and decided to refund some of the money?

17. Why has Mr John Githongo deliberately omitted to connect the Kanu Government with Anglo Leasing in his report? Were the 18 security contracts highlighted by Mr Githongo not subject of a Government special Audit?

ANSWER: If in deed any member of the KANU government is found to have committed economic crimes, then he or she should face the law to its fullest extent. That’s the more reason why you should be charged for obstruction of justice, misprision of an offense, and possible commission of a crime. In any case, if you knew that the contracts had been awarded to phantom companies, why were you pressurizing Mr Githongo to approve the payoffs?

18. Out of the 18 Security contracts, only four were concluded under the NARC Government. The rest were all under the former Kanu regime. Why is Mr Githongo deliberately playing this down? Are these contracts not the same as those in Clay’s Dossier? Why did Mr Githongo pass the report on these projects to Mr Clay instead of the President?

ANSWER: For a lawyer, I am surprised at these questions. Again, please refer to #17. As for Mr. Clay’s Dossier, your question has already been answered by Mr. Murungaru, the former Internal Security Minister, who has said that Mr. Kibaki was fully apprised of these questionable deals. Mr. Clay was simply stating what the president already knew.

19. Mr John Githongo and Uhuru Kenyatta have been holding secret meetings in London, the latest being the last weekend. Can he release the tapes of these meetings? What was discussed at those meetings? Is he involved in a plot by the opposition to bring down Kibaki’s Government?

ANSWER: Irrelevant question. Please refer to #10.

20. Who is paying Mr Githongo’s bill for his luxurious apartment in London?

ANSWER: Irrelevant question. Please refer to #10. .

21. Why is he so heavily protected by the British Secret Service? What kind of visa is he on? Who is he working for?

ANSWER: Irrelevant question. Please refer to #10.

22. Mr Githongo has severally talked about billions of shillings that could have been lost through Anglo Leasing projects. How much money has actually been lost by the government in the two Anglo Leasing projects i.e. the security passports project and the police Forensic laboratory?

ANSWER: Another good question. As former Minister for Justice, you are in the best position to give the answer to your fellow Kenyans. Enquiring minds want to know.

23. Can Githongo tell the committee how much money Hon Kiraitu or Hon Mwiraria received from Anglo Leasing projects?

ANSWER: Another good question. Enquiring minds want to know.

Since all the monies paid under Anglo Leasing projects was returned to the treasury and Mr Githongo assisted in following those involved in the alleged conspiracy both in Kenya and abroad, why did he not give all the information he is giving now to KACC in 2004? Who obstructed Mr Githongo during his investigations out of Kenya? What did his investigations abroad reveal? Why did he not mention Kiraitu’s name during those investigations?

ANSWER: You traveled with him to London, and inspected the Kroll Associates databases. You were the minister - his senior. You tell us where the money is.

24. In what circumstances did Mr John Githongo’s father Mr Joe Githongo obtain a loan of Sh30 million from Mr Peter Pereira through his lawyer Mr Malik?

ANSWER: Totally flabbergasted as to the relevance of the question. Please refer to #10.

25. What was the consideration for this loan?

ANSWER: Refer to #24.

26. Can Mr Githongo play to PAC the whole tape recording of the entire meeting where the loan was discussed? What did Mr Githongo tell Hon Kiraitu? Can Githongo deny he is on a revenge mission against Mr Pereira for “fixing ” his father and ruining his health?

ANSWER: Mr. Githongo, in his treatise to the President, says that he has a 91-page report that he is yet to release. Rest assured that its contents will come out sooner or later, and your wishes will be fulfilled.

27. During the compilation of the Ndung’u report, Mr Githongo was aware that the molasses plant and land valued at over 3 billion Kenya shillings was given to the Hon Raila Odinga by former regime at the throwaway price of Sh125 million during the political marriage between Kanu and NDP. Why does Githongo not say anything at all about Raila?

ANSWER: This is irrelevant to the Anglo-Leasing scam. We shall also deal with the Ndung’u report when the time comes. Otherwise, refer to #10.

28. Is it true that Raila Odinga introduced Mr Githongo to Kroll and Associates? Mr Githongo spent Sh90 million with Kroll and associates to trace “billions” stolen from Kenya and hidden abroad. How much money was traced and where? How much has been recovered? What happened to Kroll when Mr Githongo resigned?

ANSWER: Please refer to #23.

29: Mr Githongo in his report says Mwiraria told him on 17.5.04 that Mr Jimmy Wanjigi would kill him. Who did he report to? Why did he have to wait until after six months to flee the country from the date of threat, if indeed he feared for his life?

ANSWER: On the same day this threat was issued, you had issued another one earlier on the same day - in the same office, where you told Mr. Githongo that “‘people’ were concerned whether he appreciated the political costs of his work. Why didn’t you yourself report these “people” to the police. After all, you were in charge of the Justice ministry, and justice for all, assumedly, was your concern..

30: In his report he says that a senior politician had told him on 24.5.04 that Murungaru would kill him. Who is the unnamed senior politician? Is he afraid of naming him? Did he report this serious matter to the police? Why did he wait six months before fleeing the country if he was in real danger?

ANSWER: In the statement you are referring to, Mr. Githongo said: “He (Murungi), told me that Alfie Getonga was going around complaining openly about my work; Hon Kiraitu was accusing me of working for foreigners and Murungaru was threatening my life directly”. Why is the name of the “senior politician” important to you?
The fact that you are pre-occupied with the opinions of the “foreigners” is proof that you were actively trying to cover up this massive scam.

31: The covering letter forwarding the report to H.E the President states that the report is being forwarded as a result of information received by Mr Stanley Murage. Where did he meet Mr Murage? Did he record his conversations with Mr Murage? Can we have the tapes?

ANSWER: No. You got it all wrong. It is not Mr. Murage receiving any reports, but the fact that he informed Githongo that the past reports that Githongo had been preparing for the president had DISSAPPEARED! That’s why he was preparing this report.

32: The report was sent on November 24, 2005. If the intention was to assist the president to fight corruption, as it says, why did he wait a whole nine months before releasing it after he left the country? Could he have sent it in anticipation of a regime change after the referendum?

ANSWER: Mr Githongo has stated several times that he updated the president several times during his investigations, and yet, nothing was done. Why did this escape you?

33: Is it true that Githongo would first give all his report to Sir Edward Clay before briefing H.E the President?

ANSWER: For a lawyer, and a minister for justice at that, you are engaging in speculation and rumor-mongering, which is simply mind-boggling. Can you provide proof?

34: Is it true that Githongo was a member of the Kenya Police Reserve?

ANSWER: Irrelevant question. Refer to #10.

35: Does Mr Githongo’s conscience ever trouble him regarding the clandestine taping of conversations with friends and government ministers with whom he was serving the same government and President?

ANSWER: The guilt here resides with those who have defrauded the Kenyan people. The Kenyan people placed all their trust in you and your colleagues in government. As long as you hold public office, you also have moral and ethical obligations to uphold the highest standards. Not only have you let them down, but you have also potentially broken the law. In a civilized world, if you break the law, you must face the law to its fullest extent.

36: Can Mr Githongo deny that all the way through, he was a spy for the British against his own country?