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	<title>Comments on: Waki Commission &#8211; options beyond ICC/tribunal?</title>
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	<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/</link>
	<description>Opinions, commentary, na kadhalika</description>
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		<title>By: Omozungu</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95910</link>
		<dc:creator>Omozungu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95910</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m looking at the witness testimony, and Ms. Obaso of CARE.  She stated:

UN Security council, resolution no. 1820 recognizes rape as a crime of war and Kenya is a signatory to this resolution</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m looking at the witness testimony, and Ms. Obaso of CARE.  She stated:</p>
<p>UN Security council, resolution no. 1820 recognizes rape as a crime of war and Kenya is a signatory to this resolution</p>
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		<title>By: Ory Okolloh</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95902</link>
		<dc:creator>Ory Okolloh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95902</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think a police investigation of itself even remote qualifies as an adequate or even proper domestic remedy.   If it would that would be just nonsensical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think a police investigation of itself even remote qualifies as an adequate or even proper domestic remedy.   If it would that would be just nonsensical.</p>
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		<title>By: Omozungu</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95901</link>
		<dc:creator>Omozungu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95901</guid>
		<description>I wonder, however, if the police inquiry in PEV sexual violence would pre-empt such a complaint?  Gov&#039;t and/or police could claim it was already being dealt with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder, however, if the police inquiry in PEV sexual violence would pre-empt such a complaint?  Gov&#8217;t and/or police could claim it was already being dealt with.</p>
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		<title>By: Ory Okolloh</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95900</link>
		<dc:creator>Ory Okolloh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95900</guid>
		<description>I meant FIDA et. al should be involved in drafting the complaint to the Commission on the status of women, and where feasible attempt private prosecutions if only to keep up the pressure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant FIDA et. al should be involved in drafting the complaint to the Commission on the status of women, and where feasible attempt private prosecutions if only to keep up the pressure.</p>
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		<title>By: Omozungu</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95899</link>
		<dc:creator>Omozungu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95899</guid>
		<description>Can the police effectively investigate themselves?  Can we expect justice from the inquest just set up by Ali to look into sexual violence during PEV, including that perpetrated by police?  Fida is involved, and they were also involved in the Waki commission&#039;s inquiries into sexual and gender-based violence (SGBV), and senior female officers are going to head up the inquiry.  But it will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I hope that Fida and others can act as watchdogs during the whole process, to make sure it is transparent and fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can the police effectively investigate themselves?  Can we expect justice from the inquest just set up by Ali to look into sexual violence during PEV, including that perpetrated by police?  Fida is involved, and they were also involved in the Waki commission&#8217;s inquiries into sexual and gender-based violence (SGBV), and senior female officers are going to head up the inquiry.  But it will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I hope that Fida and others can act as watchdogs during the whole process, to make sure it is transparent and fair.</p>
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		<title>By: Dipesh Pabari</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95897</link>
		<dc:creator>Dipesh Pabari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95897</guid>
		<description>Thanks for concrete suggestions to this Ory. We DO NEED to get out of the press conference/workshop mode but I find civil society organisations here so entrenched within their own systems, that they are unable to crack out of it. Entities like Bunge need to be built upon. Civil Society needs to free itself from its NGO chains. I have always wanted to see a mass civil movement with tens of thousands taking to the streets holding candles, or whatever. It works in Korea and elsewhere - why not here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for concrete suggestions to this Ory. We DO NEED to get out of the press conference/workshop mode but I find civil society organisations here so entrenched within their own systems, that they are unable to crack out of it. Entities like Bunge need to be built upon. Civil Society needs to free itself from its NGO chains. I have always wanted to see a mass civil movement with tens of thousands taking to the streets holding candles, or whatever. It works in Korea and elsewhere &#8211; why not here?</p>
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		<title>By: Omozungu</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95896</link>
		<dc:creator>Omozungu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95896</guid>
		<description>Just finished the section on sexual violence in the Waki report.  It makes for some pretty harrowing reading.  A couple of points arise, in terms of a pattern of sexual violence:

Some attackers explicitly stated to their victims that the rapes were politically motivated -- i.e., that the victim supported the &quot;wrong&quot; side

A number of police (regular, AP, GSU) sexually assaulted women as well.  In at least one case, a woman was raped by police after they spotted a political poster on the wall in her house -- she was a supporter of the &quot;wrong&quot; party.  (At the same time, police have been guilty of sexual violence before: in the refugee camps in the north, during the sweep in Kibera [or Mathare?] for mungiki in June 2007 -- so sexual violence by them constitutes both a long-term pattern, and an explicitly political pattern during PEV.)

Re Bosnia: I haven&#039;t followed Hague cases re Rwanda closely enough -- have there similar judgments there?  And wasn&#039;t someone from DRC just indicted on charges of HR violations, including sexual violence?

It might be worthwhile for someone to contact some of the NGOs to see if they have any plans in the works.  I&#039;ve not heard anything from Njoki Ndung&#039;u, or have I missed it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just finished the section on sexual violence in the Waki report.  It makes for some pretty harrowing reading.  A couple of points arise, in terms of a pattern of sexual violence:</p>
<p>Some attackers explicitly stated to their victims that the rapes were politically motivated &#8212; i.e., that the victim supported the &#8220;wrong&#8221; side</p>
<p>A number of police (regular, AP, GSU) sexually assaulted women as well.  In at least one case, a woman was raped by police after they spotted a political poster on the wall in her house &#8212; she was a supporter of the &#8220;wrong&#8221; party.  (At the same time, police have been guilty of sexual violence before: in the refugee camps in the north, during the sweep in Kibera [or Mathare?] for mungiki in June 2007 &#8212; so sexual violence by them constitutes both a long-term pattern, and an explicitly political pattern during PEV.)</p>
<p>Re Bosnia: I haven&#8217;t followed Hague cases re Rwanda closely enough &#8212; have there similar judgments there?  And wasn&#8217;t someone from DRC just indicted on charges of HR violations, including sexual violence?</p>
<p>It might be worthwhile for someone to contact some of the NGOs to see if they have any plans in the works.  I&#8217;ve not heard anything from Njoki Ndung&#8217;u, or have I missed it?</p>
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		<title>By: Ory Okolloh</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95895</link>
		<dc:creator>Ory Okolloh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95895</guid>
		<description>Hi Omozungu: 

Given the anecdotes and evidence that was collected during that period, I think a fairly strong claim can be made that there was a pattern of violations - yes, there was a particular context for it - but given previous judgments e.g. in Bosnia one can argue that there was a pattern of targeting women specifically through political/ethnic violence. 

I think it would strengthen the case if NGOs in Kenya did the submission .  I&#039;m sure if they put their minds to it, they could get the victims involved they were quite vocal during the actual crisis, I&#039;d be very disappointed if they go quiet now - Nairobi Hospital&#039;s gender recovery center alone has many horror stories.   To the extent that anonymity is preserved unlike e.g. having to testify in a local court, the barriers to getting victims to testify might be lower.  

I think, unfortunately, including male victims will reduce the larger point but there is no reason why reference to their experiences cannot be mentioned as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Omozungu: </p>
<p>Given the anecdotes and evidence that was collected during that period, I think a fairly strong claim can be made that there was a pattern of violations &#8211; yes, there was a particular context for it &#8211; but given previous judgments e.g. in Bosnia one can argue that there was a pattern of targeting women specifically through political/ethnic violence. </p>
<p>I think it would strengthen the case if NGOs in Kenya did the submission .  I&#8217;m sure if they put their minds to it, they could get the victims involved they were quite vocal during the actual crisis, I&#8217;d be very disappointed if they go quiet now &#8211; Nairobi Hospital&#8217;s gender recovery center alone has many horror stories.   To the extent that anonymity is preserved unlike e.g. having to testify in a local court, the barriers to getting victims to testify might be lower.  </p>
<p>I think, unfortunately, including male victims will reduce the larger point but there is no reason why reference to their experiences cannot be mentioned as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Omozungu</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/10/27/waki-commission-options-beyond-icctribunal/comment-page-1/#comment-95894</link>
		<dc:creator>Omozungu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=624#comment-95894</guid>
		<description>Re complaint to Commission on Status of Women
Their website says:
Scope of the Procedure
The complaint, or communication, must either (1) allege a pattern of violations in a particular country or (2) identify a problem or problems facing women in several countries. 

Who Can Submit a Complaint :   Individual victims of human rights violations and individuals who can identify a particular victim(s).

Role of Advocates:  NGOs may submit complaints, but have a very limited role in the proceedings

Would they accept sexual violence during PEV a &quot;pattern of violations&quot;?  Or chalk it up to a very particular context?

Also, it would appear that NGOs in Kenya (only in Kenya? or women&#039;s/human rights groups overseas?) could submit a complaint, but the victims would have to play a very active role if the complaints were to be investigated.  Waki got 31 victims to testify.  I wonder if FIDA, CREAW and others (WILDAF, COVAW) could get victims to be part of an international process?

And: what about male victims?  Most victims of sexual violence during PEV were women, but it appears that many men (who knows how many?) were assaulted as well - some by forced circumcision, some by penile amputation, some by sodomy.  Would it be wise to follow Ndung&#039;u&#039;s strategy with the SOA 2006, in arguing that sexual violence affects men and women? (Thus making it not a &quot;women&#039;s&quot; issue but a gender-neutral human rights issue.)  Or does that reduce the larger point that women are victimized more than men, and that this is part of a larger, systemic state of relative powerlessness of women in Kenya (and elsewhere, for that matter)?

If all goes well next Tuesday here in the US, Obama will be president - perhaps he can be called upon to pressurize Kenyan politicians, and give at least moral encouragement to civil society groups in Kenya.

In any event, thanks Ory for pushing the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re complaint to Commission on Status of Women<br />
Their website says:<br />
Scope of the Procedure<br />
The complaint, or communication, must either (1) allege a pattern of violations in a particular country or (2) identify a problem or problems facing women in several countries. </p>
<p>Who Can Submit a Complaint :   Individual victims of human rights violations and individuals who can identify a particular victim(s).</p>
<p>Role of Advocates:  NGOs may submit complaints, but have a very limited role in the proceedings</p>
<p>Would they accept sexual violence during PEV a &#8220;pattern of violations&#8221;?  Or chalk it up to a very particular context?</p>
<p>Also, it would appear that NGOs in Kenya (only in Kenya? or women&#8217;s/human rights groups overseas?) could submit a complaint, but the victims would have to play a very active role if the complaints were to be investigated.  Waki got 31 victims to testify.  I wonder if FIDA, CREAW and others (WILDAF, COVAW) could get victims to be part of an international process?</p>
<p>And: what about male victims?  Most victims of sexual violence during PEV were women, but it appears that many men (who knows how many?) were assaulted as well &#8211; some by forced circumcision, some by penile amputation, some by sodomy.  Would it be wise to follow Ndung&#8217;u's strategy with the SOA 2006, in arguing that sexual violence affects men and women? (Thus making it not a &#8220;women&#8217;s&#8221; issue but a gender-neutral human rights issue.)  Or does that reduce the larger point that women are victimized more than men, and that this is part of a larger, systemic state of relative powerlessness of women in Kenya (and elsewhere, for that matter)?</p>
<p>If all goes well next Tuesday here in the US, Obama will be president &#8211; perhaps he can be called upon to pressurize Kenyan politicians, and give at least moral encouragement to civil society groups in Kenya.</p>
<p>In any event, thanks Ory for pushing the issue.</p>
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