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	<title>Comments on: Zimbabwe elections</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/</link>
	<description>Opinions, commentary, na kadhalika</description>
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		<title>By: jerseys</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-135512</link>
		<dc:creator>jerseys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 06:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-135512</guid>
		<description>this is very good,i love it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is very good,i love it</p>
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		<title>By: cheap edhardy bikini</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-123000</link>
		<dc:creator>cheap edhardy bikini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 08:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-123000</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the submit, i appreciated reading through it. I don’t agree with it all but it was a nice submit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the submit, i appreciated reading through it. I don’t agree with it all but it was a nice submit.</p>
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		<title>By: Osas</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-88176</link>
		<dc:creator>Osas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-88176</guid>
		<description>&quot;Question is where do we look now? Githongo? Kiai? PLO?
around whom can we rally?&quot;

A bedazzled slave looking for a new Massa. 
A sad sight to behold.  No wonder that there is no progress in sight, with such an attitude.

Osas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Question is where do we look now? Githongo? Kiai? PLO?<br />
around whom can we rally?&#8221;</p>
<p>A bedazzled slave looking for a new Massa.<br />
A sad sight to behold.  No wonder that there is no progress in sight, with such an attitude.</p>
<p>Osas</p>
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		<title>By: Mwananchi Mkena</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-88146</link>
		<dc:creator>Mwananchi Mkena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-88146</guid>
		<description>I think you have a point K.P. that across Africa we are seeing a new brand of &#039;civilian coups&#039; where leaders who came in as reformers, eg Kibaki, Wade of Senegal, are rigging themselves to stay in power.  Its really continent wide!

I think, however, its telling to see that many of the MPs in these countries are getting replaced.  Which tells me that democracy is indeed taking root across the continent but that its stopping short of the presidency.

 I think we have come a long way in Kenya and that the newly expanded middle class is going to be key to democracy reaching the top.

One major challenge I see is that this middle class, and the working classes that took to the streets with pangas etc are lacking effective direction.  I see the current crisis in Kenya as a moment that is ripe for change but we are unfortunate in our lack of committed and truly progressive leadership.

With appologies to R.O&#039;s supporters, I think the last month has revealed serious weaknesses in his democratic credentials.  And we all know Kibaki stopped offering that hope years ago. 
Question is where do we look now?  Githongo? Kiai? PLO? 
around whom can we rally?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have a point K.P. that across Africa we are seeing a new brand of &#8216;civilian coups&#8217; where leaders who came in as reformers, eg Kibaki, Wade of Senegal, are rigging themselves to stay in power.  Its really continent wide!</p>
<p>I think, however, its telling to see that many of the MPs in these countries are getting replaced.  Which tells me that democracy is indeed taking root across the continent but that its stopping short of the presidency.</p>
<p> I think we have come a long way in Kenya and that the newly expanded middle class is going to be key to democracy reaching the top.</p>
<p>One major challenge I see is that this middle class, and the working classes that took to the streets with pangas etc are lacking effective direction.  I see the current crisis in Kenya as a moment that is ripe for change but we are unfortunate in our lack of committed and truly progressive leadership.</p>
<p>With appologies to R.O&#8217;s supporters, I think the last month has revealed serious weaknesses in his democratic credentials.  And we all know Kibaki stopped offering that hope years ago.<br />
Question is where do we look now?  Githongo? Kiai? PLO?<br />
around whom can we rally?</p>
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		<title>By: Osas</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-88055</link>
		<dc:creator>Osas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-88055</guid>
		<description>The amount of naked savagery creeping to the surface in Kenyan cyberspace is quite revealing. 

Boil a missionary in your cauldron if you must, Sijui, but please leave fellow Kenyan brothers and sisters unharmed. And keep your mouth shut.

Osas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amount of naked savagery creeping to the surface in Kenyan cyberspace is quite revealing. </p>
<p>Boil a missionary in your cauldron if you must, Sijui, but please leave fellow Kenyan brothers and sisters unharmed. And keep your mouth shut.</p>
<p>Osas</p>
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		<title>By: Idiocy, freshly-baked idiocy &#171; the shipwright returns</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-88051</link>
		<dc:creator>Idiocy, freshly-baked idiocy &#171; the shipwright returns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-88051</guid>
		<description>[...] freshly-baked&#160;idiocy April 9, 2008   Sijui, in a comment at Ory&#8217;s blog says: One thing I particularly like about the aftermath of the Kenyan election [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] freshly-baked&nbsp;idiocy April 9, 2008   Sijui, in a comment at Ory&#8217;s blog says: One thing I particularly like about the aftermath of the Kenyan election [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Relieved</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-88013</link>
		<dc:creator>Relieved</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-88013</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think you guys are too hard on Owour and Shiroh, there is no way one can compare Kenya to Zimbabwe, here are some additonal reasons:
1. Kenya begins with the letter K, Zimbabwe with the letter Z.
2. Kenya has the Indian Ocean, Zimbabwe does not. 
3.  Kenya nearly disintegrated in an allout war, Zim did not.
4, Kenya is an ally in the war on terror, Zim is not.
5, Kenya hosts it&#039;s own refugees, Zim does not.
6. Kenya can beg for aid on behalf of it&#039;s IDP&#039;s, Zim cannot.

I also agree with Shiroh&#039;s implied statement, the ECK acted on their own, as is often said by our beloved, leaders, &quot;Africans are not ready for democracy&quot;.  

Maybe we need more workshops, and, training in how to run an honest election.  The training we got was on how to run an election, not on how to run an honest election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think you guys are too hard on Owour and Shiroh, there is no way one can compare Kenya to Zimbabwe, here are some additonal reasons:<br />
1. Kenya begins with the letter K, Zimbabwe with the letter Z.<br />
2. Kenya has the Indian Ocean, Zimbabwe does not.<br />
3.  Kenya nearly disintegrated in an allout war, Zim did not.<br />
4, Kenya is an ally in the war on terror, Zim is not.<br />
5, Kenya hosts it&#8217;s own refugees, Zim does not.<br />
6. Kenya can beg for aid on behalf of it&#8217;s IDP&#8217;s, Zim cannot.</p>
<p>I also agree with Shiroh&#8217;s implied statement, the ECK acted on their own, as is often said by our beloved, leaders, &#8220;Africans are not ready for democracy&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Maybe we need more workshops, and, training in how to run an honest election.  The training we got was on how to run an election, not on how to run an honest election.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-87997</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-87997</guid>
		<description>You guys must have heard of the latest request from Mugabe’s ZANU-PF – they now want a recount of votes in some constituencies where they lost. Again, my question to everybody: How do you ask for a recount before you release the results?. What is the basis of the recount? How does ZANU-PF know that they lost and therefore a recount should he held? This can only be done after the results are officially announced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys must have heard of the latest request from Mugabe’s ZANU-PF – they now want a recount of votes in some constituencies where they lost. Again, my question to everybody: How do you ask for a recount before you release the results?. What is the basis of the recount? How does ZANU-PF know that they lost and therefore a recount should he held? This can only be done after the results are officially announced.</p>
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		<title>By: Sijui</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-87996</link>
		<dc:creator>Sijui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 14:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-87996</guid>
		<description>KP,
         Perhaps the crux of your arguments is how much are Kenyans willing to pay for freedom? Many of the things you cite boil down to how vested in Kenya are Kenyans? And if the country disintegrates, whose fault is it?

One thing I particularly like about the aftermath of the Kenyan election is that the average low income mwananchi fought back, and in my opinion they fought less for their civic freedoms......I think that is obvious by the nature of the blood letting.........but more for their naked self interest, as blatantly parochial and regressive as that might be. I now have far more respect for people acting on their suspicions and resentments than the cowardly, complacent and self absorbed &#039;middle class&#039;. And I don&#039;t want to make the mistake of painting the ENTIRE Kenyan middle class with the same brush, that would be dishonest and clearly there are many who fought the good fight however my point is, things would not have changed HAD THE VAST MAJORITY of the working class and low income not brandished their pangas.

And yes, Kenya has come to the point where disputes will have to be settled violently.  I&#039;m glad the average mwanachi has disavowed the pretense of a stable, functional society. And are dealing with the ethnic, social and political fissures head on, albeit violently and disastrously.....atleast they&#039;re dealing with them and don&#039;t have their head up their arses.

My personal position on all of this is let the chips fall where they may, and let&#039;s all be forced to dealing with the price of stitching back together a disintegrating country. 

P.S. I&#039;m glad Zimbabweans got their balls back.....sorry if this offends anyone.......but I remain unimpressed with their determination to rid themselves of tyranny, I believe KENYA WOKE THEM UP! The extent that people were willing to go (including killing their own neighbors) for a sense of electoral justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KP,<br />
         Perhaps the crux of your arguments is how much are Kenyans willing to pay for freedom? Many of the things you cite boil down to how vested in Kenya are Kenyans? And if the country disintegrates, whose fault is it?</p>
<p>One thing I particularly like about the aftermath of the Kenyan election is that the average low income mwananchi fought back, and in my opinion they fought less for their civic freedoms&#8230;&#8230;I think that is obvious by the nature of the blood letting&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;but more for their naked self interest, as blatantly parochial and regressive as that might be. I now have far more respect for people acting on their suspicions and resentments than the cowardly, complacent and self absorbed &#8216;middle class&#8217;. And I don&#8217;t want to make the mistake of painting the ENTIRE Kenyan middle class with the same brush, that would be dishonest and clearly there are many who fought the good fight however my point is, things would not have changed HAD THE VAST MAJORITY of the working class and low income not brandished their pangas.</p>
<p>And yes, Kenya has come to the point where disputes will have to be settled violently.  I&#8217;m glad the average mwanachi has disavowed the pretense of a stable, functional society. And are dealing with the ethnic, social and political fissures head on, albeit violently and disastrously&#8230;..atleast they&#8217;re dealing with them and don&#8217;t have their head up their arses.</p>
<p>My personal position on all of this is let the chips fall where they may, and let&#8217;s all be forced to dealing with the price of stitching back together a disintegrating country. </p>
<p>P.S. I&#8217;m glad Zimbabweans got their balls back&#8230;..sorry if this offends anyone&#8230;&#8230;.but I remain unimpressed with their determination to rid themselves of tyranny, I believe KENYA WOKE THEM UP! The extent that people were willing to go (including killing their own neighbors) for a sense of electoral justice.</p>
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		<title>By: Opalo</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2008/04/04/zimbabwe-elections/comment-page-1/#comment-87954</link>
		<dc:creator>Opalo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=479#comment-87954</guid>
		<description>what I don&#039;t get is why African dictators choose to hold elections. It&#039;s a complete waste of public resources to hold elections and have them not count at all. 

Africa cannot feed its people. It cannot educate its people.  It cannot treat its people. It cannot govern itself. 

As a friend of mine suggested in class yesterday..... may be the entire continent should be put under UN receivership until it gets its act together. May be then we can get rid of the Mugabes, Obiangs and Zenawis that make living in Africa hell on earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what I don&#8217;t get is why African dictators choose to hold elections. It&#8217;s a complete waste of public resources to hold elections and have them not count at all. </p>
<p>Africa cannot feed its people. It cannot educate its people.  It cannot treat its people. It cannot govern itself. </p>
<p>As a friend of mine suggested in class yesterday&#8230;.. may be the entire continent should be put under UN receivership until it gets its act together. May be then we can get rid of the Mugabes, Obiangs and Zenawis that make living in Africa hell on earth.</p>
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