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	<title>Comments on: Zuma for President?</title>
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	<description>Opinions, commentary, na kadhalika</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: sam dc</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-92834</link>
		<dc:creator>sam dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-92834</guid>
		<description>Ory, I believe you know better than most of us who are not in S.A , but my understanding from friends who studied and now work there, many S.African blacks don't take it lightly at all, when any foreigner comments openly on thier political leaders.

Again, this is my understanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ory, I believe you know better than most of us who are not in S.A , but my understanding from friends who studied and now work there, many S.African blacks don&#8217;t take it lightly at all, when any foreigner comments openly on thier political leaders.</p>
<p>Again, this is my understanding.</p>
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		<title>By: emmo opoti</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82317</link>
		<dc:creator>emmo opoti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sijui, that was supposed to be a :twisted:  emoticon not the word twisted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sijui, that was supposed to be a <img src='http://www.kenyanpundit.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif' alt=':twisted:' class='wp-smiley' />  emoticon not the word twisted.</p>
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		<title>By: emmo opoti</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82316</link>
		<dc:creator>emmo opoti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82316</guid>
		<description>Sijui,
Stalking you now:twisted:

There are indeed many similarities between Zuma and Raila. I have not heard many of Zuma's plans, but I hope he knows something about delegation having himself served in executive positions before. His lack of education only becomes relevant if he takes his own counsel and elects to ignore the advice of those who know better than he does.
This is also the great danger with Raila, and I'd be pleased to know from Sijui what informs his optimism on an ODM government. Most of the ideas they announce in their manifesto and other proposals are truly ridiculous, and I find it hard to believe that Nyong'o spawned them. I am also worried by such statements as the one he made on Kenya Airways and Miraa. People, even Presidents, need to know their place. This is the danger with the fantasies about Lee Kwan Yew and Dr Mohammed, not everyone can fit in such shoes. Raila definitely cannot.  Change will come from a culture of service and a holding to account, from from educated or nice:???: leaders.

Now, with regard to institutions, both in Kenya and abroad, the danger has always been that when a party or a candidate is too powerful, no institutions can stand in their way.  A skilful grassroots politician like George Bush, Zuma or Raila can appeal to the people whether indirectly or directly for permission to walk all over such institutions. George Bush obviously is the best example of this, but the examples of Thatcher, Kohl and even Mahathir Mohammed show that institutions are like putty in a strong leaders hands.  In fact, crises only serve to strengthen such a leader's grip, again GWB after 9/11, or Dr Mohammed during the Asian Financial Crisis.

South Africa will likely go the Zimbabwe route, i.e. forced land repatriation. It is unavoidable if they stick to their present policies that reward a black middle class and further enervate the rural poor. They should try borrow a leaf from Kibaki, or from the Swynnerton Plan. The ANC's Freedom Charter does not indicate a natural inclination to do this, so it is not likely that they will see the iceberg, not until it is too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sijui,<br />
Stalking you now:twisted:</p>
<p>There are indeed many similarities between Zuma and Raila. I have not heard many of Zuma&#8217;s plans, but I hope he knows something about delegation having himself served in executive positions before. His lack of education only becomes relevant if he takes his own counsel and elects to ignore the advice of those who know better than he does.<br />
This is also the great danger with Raila, and I&#8217;d be pleased to know from Sijui what informs his optimism on an ODM government. Most of the ideas they announce in their manifesto and other proposals are truly ridiculous, and I find it hard to believe that Nyong&#8217;o spawned them. I am also worried by such statements as the one he made on Kenya Airways and Miraa. People, even Presidents, need to know their place. This is the danger with the fantasies about Lee Kwan Yew and Dr Mohammed, not everyone can fit in such shoes. Raila definitely cannot.  Change will come from a culture of service and a holding to account, from from educated or nice:???: leaders.</p>
<p>Now, with regard to institutions, both in Kenya and abroad, the danger has always been that when a party or a candidate is too powerful, no institutions can stand in their way.  A skilful grassroots politician like George Bush, Zuma or Raila can appeal to the people whether indirectly or directly for permission to walk all over such institutions. George Bush obviously is the best example of this, but the examples of Thatcher, Kohl and even Mahathir Mohammed show that institutions are like putty in a strong leaders hands.  In fact, crises only serve to strengthen such a leader&#8217;s grip, again GWB after 9/11, or Dr Mohammed during the Asian Financial Crisis.</p>
<p>South Africa will likely go the Zimbabwe route, i.e. forced land repatriation. It is unavoidable if they stick to their present policies that reward a black middle class and further enervate the rural poor. They should try borrow a leaf from Kibaki, or from the Swynnerton Plan. The ANC&#8217;s Freedom Charter does not indicate a natural inclination to do this, so it is not likely that they will see the iceberg, not until it is too late.</p>
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		<title>By: Osas</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82125</link>
		<dc:creator>Osas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82125</guid>
		<description>No, KOPP. 
Slaves will get the liidaahsheep they deserve. Yoke and whip.

OSas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, KOPP.<br />
Slaves will get the liidaahsheep they deserve. Yoke and whip.</p>
<p>OSas</p>
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		<title>By: KOPP</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82065</link>
		<dc:creator>KOPP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82065</guid>
		<description>It is sad that this kind of leadership is what awaits the much loved ANC, Mandela's party. I blame Thabo Mbeki. He should have avoided this by being a better schemer. South Africa deserves better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is sad that this kind of leadership is what awaits the much loved ANC, Mandela&#8217;s party. I blame Thabo Mbeki. He should have avoided this by being a better schemer. South Africa deserves better.</p>
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		<title>By: jcbrand</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82044</link>
		<dc:creator>jcbrand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82044</guid>
		<description>@joe
Please explain why you say that the ANC inherited an economy that had virtually collapsed? 

I'm a white guy in SA and apart from the ANC inheriting a stagnant economy with a lot of dept, I can hardly see how it was "virtually collapsed". We can look at Zimbabwe for an example of a collapsing economy. Nothing of the sort happened here.

With regards to the skills shortage, it was exacerbated by the (purposefully) inferior bantu education system of the National Party which I believe was one of the most short sighted and damaging mistakes of the previous regime. South Africa is now reaping the fruits of that policy.

With regards to Zuma - assuming he becomes president  - I think the big test will be when his hold on power is threatened. Will he start changing the constitution and implement radical reforms (such as Bob Mugabe) to appease the poor (which will likely ruin SA's economy), or will he abide by the democratic ideal of a revolving leadership and pass the torch to a successor?

The ideal of limiting the number of terms a leader may serve and ensuring that this is enforced is enormously important for a stable democracy in preventing abuse of power and a possible dictatorship. Sadly this has been neglected in many African states with dire consequences. 

To again refer to Zimbabwe, if Bob Mugabe was forced to step down after two terms and make way for a successor, we might not have had the economic meltdown in Zim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@joe<br />
Please explain why you say that the ANC inherited an economy that had virtually collapsed? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a white guy in SA and apart from the ANC inheriting a stagnant economy with a lot of dept, I can hardly see how it was &#8220;virtually collapsed&#8221;. We can look at Zimbabwe for an example of a collapsing economy. Nothing of the sort happened here.</p>
<p>With regards to the skills shortage, it was exacerbated by the (purposefully) inferior bantu education system of the National Party which I believe was one of the most short sighted and damaging mistakes of the previous regime. South Africa is now reaping the fruits of that policy.</p>
<p>With regards to Zuma - assuming he becomes president  - I think the big test will be when his hold on power is threatened. Will he start changing the constitution and implement radical reforms (such as Bob Mugabe) to appease the poor (which will likely ruin SA&#8217;s economy), or will he abide by the democratic ideal of a revolving leadership and pass the torch to a successor?</p>
<p>The ideal of limiting the number of terms a leader may serve and ensuring that this is enforced is enormously important for a stable democracy in preventing abuse of power and a possible dictatorship. Sadly this has been neglected in many African states with dire consequences. </p>
<p>To again refer to Zimbabwe, if Bob Mugabe was forced to step down after two terms and make way for a successor, we might not have had the economic meltdown in Zim.</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82029</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82029</guid>
		<description>the ANC inherited an economy that  had virtually collapsed. and also KE the reaosn many african found jobs in SA was because of white flight many white left SA fearing black rule. - despite poor education in SA SA still has a large educated black middle class and skillled  work force relative to many african countries. Skill shortages reflect the economy and receovery from the latter stages of apartheied when the youth were heavily involved in the struggle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the ANC inherited an economy that  had virtually collapsed. and also KE the reaosn many african found jobs in SA was because of white flight many white left SA fearing black rule. - despite poor education in SA SA still has a large educated black middle class and skillled  work force relative to many african countries. Skill shortages reflect the economy and receovery from the latter stages of apartheied when the youth were heavily involved in the struggle</p>
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		<title>By: Sijui</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82018</link>
		<dc:creator>Sijui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82018</guid>
		<description>KE, I disagree with your assessment. Let's look at the political 'timber' of SA's black politicians namely Mandela, Oliver Tambo, Govan Mbeki etc and look at their personal and political metamorphosis over the past 50 years..........you will see a far different stock than our independence heroes Kenyatta, Nkrumah, Banda, Mobutu and ilk

The fact is the political discourse in Black South Africa is substantive and issue based not perpetually limited to 'tumbo politics.' In fact I was reading how the current ANC civil war under Mbeki dates back to an ideological falling out he had with Chris Hani and other leading lights of the SACP in the 80s when they were strategizing on the post apartheid scenario.....

Then of course there is the inescapable trajectory SA took under Mandela, yes he inherited a developed White South African economy but more importantly  he exerted a moral and intellectual stature that prevented South Africa from disintegrating in to retribution and racial excess. It is an understatement to say that SA was on the brink, a lesser leader would have used the opportunity to consolidate power for patronage and sycophancy.

Again I agree that the point is Mbeki did not fuck up hence the perils of a Zuma presidency, but the point you're missing is that Mbeki's economic management team has been the BEST the country has ever seen and the White South African corporate community has acknowledged as much. The expansion and structure of the economy has outperformed the best years of the Boer Administrations including the period when they were not under sanctions! So it is more than just not fucking up, it is surpassing expectations.

And to clarify, I am comparing apples with apples......South Africa's political elite with Africa's political elite not the average mwananchi.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KE, I disagree with your assessment. Let&#8217;s look at the political &#8216;timber&#8217; of SA&#8217;s black politicians namely Mandela, Oliver Tambo, Govan Mbeki etc and look at their personal and political metamorphosis over the past 50 years&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.you will see a far different stock than our independence heroes Kenyatta, Nkrumah, Banda, Mobutu and ilk</p>
<p>The fact is the political discourse in Black South Africa is substantive and issue based not perpetually limited to &#8216;tumbo politics.&#8217; In fact I was reading how the current ANC civil war under Mbeki dates back to an ideological falling out he had with Chris Hani and other leading lights of the SACP in the 80s when they were strategizing on the post apartheid scenario&#8230;..</p>
<p>Then of course there is the inescapable trajectory SA took under Mandela, yes he inherited a developed White South African economy but more importantly  he exerted a moral and intellectual stature that prevented South Africa from disintegrating in to retribution and racial excess. It is an understatement to say that SA was on the brink, a lesser leader would have used the opportunity to consolidate power for patronage and sycophancy.</p>
<p>Again I agree that the point is Mbeki did not fuck up hence the perils of a Zuma presidency, but the point you&#8217;re missing is that Mbeki&#8217;s economic management team has been the BEST the country has ever seen and the White South African corporate community has acknowledged as much. The expansion and structure of the economy has outperformed the best years of the Boer Administrations including the period when they were not under sanctions! So it is more than just not fucking up, it is surpassing expectations.</p>
<p>And to clarify, I am comparing apples with apples&#8230;&#8230;South Africa&#8217;s political elite with Africa&#8217;s political elite not the average mwananchi&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: kenyanentrepreneur.com</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82016</link>
		<dc:creator>kenyanentrepreneur.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82016</guid>
		<description>Sijui,
Did apartheid help cultivate the intellect of Black South Africans? I don't think so! many of them were denied educational opportunities and they are still far behind in terms of skill set (it's the reason why they initially had to rely on expatriates from countries like Kenya to teach at many of their universities).

I think the black South Africans simply inherited a modern economy with modern infrastructure, strong private companies, etc, etc, that were built by those mzungus! What Mbeki has "done" is simply not screwed things up.  Now, is this intellectual brilliance or simply luck? And remember, when Mbeki took over in the early 90's, institutions like the world bank were already re-examining the role of foreign aid in africa and were beginning to embrace free market economic policies (and placing a heavy emphasis on issues such as corruption).  I think Mbeki inherited a well run economy, but he also came in at the "right" time.

Kenyanentrepreneur.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sijui,<br />
Did apartheid help cultivate the intellect of Black South Africans? I don&#8217;t think so! many of them were denied educational opportunities and they are still far behind in terms of skill set (it&#8217;s the reason why they initially had to rely on expatriates from countries like Kenya to teach at many of their universities).</p>
<p>I think the black South Africans simply inherited a modern economy with modern infrastructure, strong private companies, etc, etc, that were built by those mzungus! What Mbeki has &#8220;done&#8221; is simply not screwed things up.  Now, is this intellectual brilliance or simply luck? And remember, when Mbeki took over in the early 90&#8217;s, institutions like the world bank were already re-examining the role of foreign aid in africa and were beginning to embrace free market economic policies (and placing a heavy emphasis on issues such as corruption).  I think Mbeki inherited a well run economy, but he also came in at the &#8220;right&#8221; time.</p>
<p>Kenyanentrepreneur.com</p>
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		<title>By: kenyanentrepreneur.com</title>
		<link>http://www.kenyanpundit.com/2007/12/04/zuma-for-president/#comment-82015</link>
		<dc:creator>kenyanentrepreneur.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kenyanpundit.com/?p=349#comment-82015</guid>
		<description>Sijui,
Did apartheid help cultivate the intellect of Black South Africans? I don't think so! many of them were denied educational opportunities and they are still far behind in terms of skill set (it's the reason why they initially had to rely on expatriates from countries like Kenya to teach at many of their universities).

I think the black South Africans simply inherited a modern economy with modern infrastructure, strong private companies, etc, etc, that were built by those mzungus! What Mbeki has "done" is simply not screwed things up.  Now, is this intellectual brilliance or simply luck? And remember, when Mbeki took over in the early 90's, institutions like the world bank were already re-examining the role of foreign aid in africa and were beginning to embrace free market economic policies (and placing a heavy emphasis on issues such as corruption).  I think Mbeki inherited a well run economy, but he also came in at the "right" time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sijui,<br />
Did apartheid help cultivate the intellect of Black South Africans? I don&#8217;t think so! many of them were denied educational opportunities and they are still far behind in terms of skill set (it&#8217;s the reason why they initially had to rely on expatriates from countries like Kenya to teach at many of their universities).</p>
<p>I think the black South Africans simply inherited a modern economy with modern infrastructure, strong private companies, etc, etc, that were built by those mzungus! What Mbeki has &#8220;done&#8221; is simply not screwed things up.  Now, is this intellectual brilliance or simply luck? And remember, when Mbeki took over in the early 90&#8217;s, institutions like the world bank were already re-examining the role of foreign aid in africa and were beginning to embrace free market economic policies (and placing a heavy emphasis on issues such as corruption).  I think Mbeki inherited a well run economy, but he also came in at the &#8220;right&#8221; time.</p>
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